Great discussion. Been following Alex since 2021 (so I remember some of the ‘spiciest’ episodes, like Thomas777) and I have to say the shift away from the hard right has really improved ‘Subversive’.
great convo, liked this part (starting ~1:02), on how making dating too explicit makes it weird:
- "if you meet someone in a different context [than e.g. a dating app] where you're doing something else and just tangentially become close, then you kind of get to feel out that person without the showmanship"
- "... This is a date. We're going on a date. I bring the rose, you bring your little black dress. It's all kind of contrived and weird. It's like an audition."
- "everyone's hyper aware of each other's signaling, which is bad for the whole project of signaling"
- "you want to pick that up organically while the person is doing something while they're in their element and not some kind of interview"
tough though, for people to find (a) informal places that are (b) ~ 50 / 50 single men / women that (c) meet at a regular cadence w/ same set of people and (d) incidentally require some sort of interaction.
Yes, I feel a bit at a loss when trying to think of social settings that will have a somewhat equal gender mix - the two "social club" type things I do are my meetup group (80-90% male) and a book club I recently joined (100% female). BUT if you happen to have an interest which is more popular with the other sex you should lean into that if you're hoping to find a partner. And more generally I still think being more social is probably a good thing, even if you don't meet people directly through that activity you might make a friend who introduces you to more people etc.
Personal example on friendship rather than dating: When I first moved to New York I made most of my friends through my meetup group and I didn't really have many good female friends here for a while. But, now four of my closest female friends were made in some way through that group - one was directly through the group, one was the cousin of someone I met through the group and got introduced to, one I met at the wedding of a friend from my group and another through that new friend. So even though the activity itself didn't help me make new girlfriends the social connections I made through that group did. The book club I'm in now was also through one of those women. And I would assume the same could happen in a dating context?
I broadly agree the best way to view the ‘sex wars’ (or whatever you want to call it), is it’s a gradual fumbling attempt to by both men and women to negotiate and copulate in the strange new environment we find ourselves in.
I suspect the high rates of incels or just men who don’t get laid till much later in life is largely a problem of coordinating with the opposite sex in our new environment. The problem being it’s very easy to get frustrated and apathetic and check out completely (when the right partner might be just around the corner)
Speaking of Louise Perry, I recommend her conversation with Mary Harrington about how the industrial revolution completely changed the roles of sexes, and how were all still coming to terms with our new reality.
The fizzle and burn out of “the space” we all spawned from became evident to me with the saturation of AI art in every meme/article/tweet. Smells like death.
Really refreshing to hear of Alex’s new chapter; it sort of mirrors my own. Wouldn’t be where I am today without you following that curiosity and sharing it with all of us❤️
In case you haven’t heard she’s just about have a baby (I subscribe to her Substack), so she might be a little occupied in the short term. But yes please make it happen if you can!
Great discussion. Been following Alex since 2021 (so I remember some of the ‘spiciest’ episodes, like Thomas777) and I have to say the shift away from the hard right has really improved ‘Subversive’.
great convo, liked this part (starting ~1:02), on how making dating too explicit makes it weird:
- "if you meet someone in a different context [than e.g. a dating app] where you're doing something else and just tangentially become close, then you kind of get to feel out that person without the showmanship"
- "... This is a date. We're going on a date. I bring the rose, you bring your little black dress. It's all kind of contrived and weird. It's like an audition."
- "everyone's hyper aware of each other's signaling, which is bad for the whole project of signaling"
- "you want to pick that up organically while the person is doing something while they're in their element and not some kind of interview"
tough though, for people to find (a) informal places that are (b) ~ 50 / 50 single men / women that (c) meet at a regular cadence w/ same set of people and (d) incidentally require some sort of interaction.
co-ed sports leagues are one good example.
Yes, I feel a bit at a loss when trying to think of social settings that will have a somewhat equal gender mix - the two "social club" type things I do are my meetup group (80-90% male) and a book club I recently joined (100% female). BUT if you happen to have an interest which is more popular with the other sex you should lean into that if you're hoping to find a partner. And more generally I still think being more social is probably a good thing, even if you don't meet people directly through that activity you might make a friend who introduces you to more people etc.
Personal example on friendship rather than dating: When I first moved to New York I made most of my friends through my meetup group and I didn't really have many good female friends here for a while. But, now four of my closest female friends were made in some way through that group - one was directly through the group, one was the cousin of someone I met through the group and got introduced to, one I met at the wedding of a friend from my group and another through that new friend. So even though the activity itself didn't help me make new girlfriends the social connections I made through that group did. The book club I'm in now was also through one of those women. And I would assume the same could happen in a dating context?
Fantastic discussion! Thank you 😊
I broadly agree the best way to view the ‘sex wars’ (or whatever you want to call it), is it’s a gradual fumbling attempt to by both men and women to negotiate and copulate in the strange new environment we find ourselves in.
I suspect the high rates of incels or just men who don’t get laid till much later in life is largely a problem of coordinating with the opposite sex in our new environment. The problem being it’s very easy to get frustrated and apathetic and check out completely (when the right partner might be just around the corner)
Speaking of Louise Perry, I recommend her conversation with Mary Harrington about how the industrial revolution completely changed the roles of sexes, and how were all still coming to terms with our new reality.
The fizzle and burn out of “the space” we all spawned from became evident to me with the saturation of AI art in every meme/article/tweet. Smells like death.
Really refreshing to hear of Alex’s new chapter; it sort of mirrors my own. Wouldn’t be where I am today without you following that curiosity and sharing it with all of us❤️
P.S: I would love to hear a conversation/debate between Louise and Regan at some point 🤞
Thanks, Tom! I have been thinking the same thing and plan to see if she'd be interested in the next couple of months :)
In case you haven’t heard she’s just about have a baby (I subscribe to her Substack), so she might be a little occupied in the short term. But yes please make it happen if you can!